money and Dave R. 25 Jan 2006 09:54 am
the nitty gritty of money
For several months I’ve been retooling how we handle our money. With the discovery of Dave Ramsey, we’ve stopped the cycle of debt, learned to spend with cash, and spend less than we make. Those used to be “catch phrases” casually tossed around. Now I know the real, hard, practical impact they can have.
I think one large hurtle I had to get over was that our overspending was never for the fluffy luxury stuff one commonly thinks of when considering credit card debt. I know alot of people will say that but in our case at least, it’s true. I have, perhaps, had too much of a martyr complex in this area. We’ve just never made a lot of money, reguardless of effort or promotions. In the old days, it was almost as if the attitude was, “you should just be grateful for what we give you”, as if earning it never came into play. I was told over and over again that the pay was “good”, even though it never matched up to personal or online comparisons of job responsiblity and salary. What *was* good was the benefit package. And occassional perks did come along now and then. But for the most part, allowing a little for inflation, we’ve made the same as we ever did, before we were a “we” and dh was in the navy.
And here? Well, it’s a whole new ball game. Apparently, the sales field has alot of variances. Base pay or not (we do get a small one). Commissions and percentages. And then there’s this pesky hidden detail of how one actually is to earn commissions when the structure seems poised against that actually happening. It’s a different world to be sure….dh hasn’t taken a lunch break in 7 months. He works hard to grow customers who like him and want to be loyal to him but can get a better deal almost anywhere else, so it makes it hard for them to actually use him. Keeping a self-tally of where the “numbers” are each month works only until it’s compared with what the office says, which is supiciously all over the place. The bottom line is, allowing nothing for inflation, we make less than we did 11 years ago, before we were a “we” and without the second job, would have no benefits to boot.
Hmmm. We aren’t suposed to long for wealth or love money. And, if one works hard, they can expect to see a return for the effort, whereas if they see nothing, it can be assumed they sit and loaf on thier derrier. We made this move, in part, to see some radical improvement. I have to admit my attitude is waning.
I listen to Dave Ramsey’s show every day. I really do get sick of hearing people whimper that they can’t “make” it on 80k or 60k or even 40k. Dave R says the average family makes 40 and that less than that is just really, really hard. No kidding. He gets really dubious that it can work on less than that, and downright quiet when there are kids involved.
I wonder what he would say if he saw our numbers.
Today I checked the federal poverty level guidelines. I knew we’d hovered around the number for several years. The census bereau updates it yearly; the 2004 numbers say that a family of 6 should be earning at least 25, 210. Maybe, just maybe, with three sources of income, we’ll touch that this year.
I can’t hear Dave. I bet he doesn’t have alot of hope for us.
And yet….our goal this year is to double our income. Conventional wisdom says that with enough blood, sweat, and tears (and oh yeah…dh is also very, very faithful, committed, talented, good with customers, motivated, experienced, and can do a variety of things) that we should be able to make it. On dark days, I wonder if that’s just urban legend. I want to see something for our effort; I want to meet someone who says, “look, we did it too”.
on 25 Jan 2006 at 10:08 am 1.Bannergranny said …
Hang on, I know in my heart God is going to bless your efforts….it breaks me up to see how you guys struggle so, yet I am so proud of you for how you try to stay the course and for the miles of progress you have made. And someday, you will be one of Dave Ramseys lead stories, and its going to help a whole lot of people. You guys are such an inspiration to me…I well remember some of our darkest financial days in Mich. when we were so close to giving up….but God was faithful. You are of good tough stock Tia, Dave too. I know you can prevail.
on 25 Jan 2006 at 10:39 am 2.gina said …
Oh man, I know what you are going through first hand. Paul is on flat rate which is very much like commission except he has no base pay. If no one brings their cars in, he makes no money that day. Our checks are all over the place and very hard to plan a budget that way. When I worked, my income was steady with only fluctuation upwards from OT so we could accomodate this flat rate thing with ease. But you know, with a higher income, you still spend the same. Oh, we bought things more without much planning back then, but really- we were still making ends meet, paying daycare somehow and our stupid car payments etc. God is going to reward you for raising your children and sacrificing. God doesn’t want us to be rich, they are harder to reach and less dependent on him. It says that in the bible somewhere. But I know that scraping for every nickel stinks too. I feel for you and will pray for some real big blessings to come your way:-)
on 25 Jan 2006 at 10:54 am 3.Tia said …
Yeah, I’m familiar with the arguement, “more money isn’t the answer.” I’ve also come to the conclusion that sometimes, it is. Dave R. doesn’t even address how to live off as little as we do, which is where the idea to double our income came from. It’s part of the strategy for being good stewards and for making this very reasonable plan work. I supose I take some issue with the idea that “God doesn’t want us to be rich”. Not that I’m longing to be rich per se! But I know we are not to be idoloters. Money itself is a neutral, imo, like food, like other stuff. It’s just a tool that can be used properly or improperly. Thanks for the encouragment, both of you.
on 25 Jan 2006 at 12:03 pm 4.Lori said …
Tia, Oh I can relate. This is the area God got me on my knees (and my husband). We only have three kids, but we struggled, and strggled. I too listened to Dave R. but I found most of my support with Crown Finacial (the late Larry Burkett’s organization).
What I know to be true, because I have seen it in soo many ways. IS GOD WANTS TO BLESS YOU. In my own life it has blown me the direction some of these blessings have come from. Literally out of the blue. And the blessings were not always money.
I will give you an example that still boggles my mind: As soon as my husband I made the comittment to get everything under control and live our means. The dishwasher, the dryer stopped working and my refrig broke. I COULD NOT BELIEVE IT. And this all happend two days after we made this comittment of no more credit cards. I just sat and cried and cried. I said Lord what do you want me to do. I felt helpless.
Then two days later, we get a call from my husbands older sister (WHO HAS NEVER BOUGHT US A THING) and is a non-Christian, said “I was at home depot and they are having an awesome sale on dishwashers, I know yours is kind of old and I am having a new one delieverd to your house. She did not even know ours broke. My head was spinning just on that one.
Then I called a repair guy for my dryer, praying praying praying that the little money we did have in the accout would cover the cost to fix it, let alone his service call. Well to my amazement, all I was charged was $40. That has not happened since…I know it was God.
Then (living without an oven) not that big of deal, I can live with the micro =)) plus the stove on top worked. But my in-laws came over for our anniversay, looked at our oven and said we want to buy you a new oven.
I can not believe how blow away I was that ALL THREE items were fixed, or brand new. THIS WAS ALL GOD. He made it possible for my husband and I to stay faithful.
And I think he gave me that, so I can remeber when times are tough He is there, we may not always see it, but He is taking care of us. Because there are still tough times, where I do not know where the money is going to come from, and I have to daily leave it in His hand. But he gave me thoes blessings as a way of saying “hang on it is going to be ok” just be faithful.
I know easier said than done, beleive I know. I hope this encourages you in some way.
Sorry so long many blessings.
Lori
on 25 Jan 2006 at 12:48 pm 5.Rachel said …
Hi, Tia, I’m glad I came over here to read your blog and glad you wrote about this. I needed to hear it because we’re in the same boat. It doesn’t do any good for me to read advice about cutting out unnecessary expenses so we can put more into a 401K when there IS NOTHING LEFT when NECESSARY expenditures are covered. By some miracle, (literally; we should not be able to meet all our expenses) the necessary expenditures have been covered up to this point, but it’s a struggle. I feel crappy even saying that it’s a struggle, though, because I look around and see that we’re fine; we’re healthy, we’re warm; we eat well; we’re not in debt (except the house), we even have managed to scrape up enough to keep the kids in Christian school; we had presents under the tree at Christmas. Luxuries, really, for most of the world. So I feel like a whiner for saying so, but it’s darned hard, and I’m so tired of it. And yet my soul isn’t comfortable praying for more.
As an example, dh just had an interview for a job with FedEx. It’ll be a few weeks before we know the outcome, but we really, really want it. And the major reason is money. It would mean an extremely tight first year (1st year pay is not good) but a huge boost in pay after that. When I’m taken care of now, is it wrong to beg God for more? Am I being ungrateful, greedy? You know the drill!
And for dh, too, the burden is greater. He wants to provide security for his family, and he’s as faithful and hardworking a man as I could wish for (like your David) and yet circumstances (which is another name for God!) have left him feeling like he’s holding the short end of the stick. It wasn’t his fault the airline industry went bust, yet he pays the price. And he’s such a good man! And a good pilot! Why can’t a good guy get a break? It’s hard not to wonder what God is thinking! But, still, ya know, what is there to do but put our trust in the Lord and wait with willing hearts to do and receive gladly whatever he sends?? I like the vending machine approach so much better; I put in the faith and efffort and prayers, God drops the payoff in the little cubbyhole of my life.
All that to say, I am totally tracking with you.
Rachel
on 26 Jan 2006 at 8:32 am 6.Tia said …
Rachel, it’s a pilot job with FedEx right? I bet that field is incredibly competitive right now with airlines closing :-(. Would you have to move? I’ll be praying! Ah…the vending machine analogy is soooo tempting sometimes isn’t it.
on 26 Jan 2006 at 10:38 am 7.MistyK said …
Hey, girl. Money *is* such a difficult thing, and I agree about the vending machine. Wish it worked that way.
I wasn’t sure if you were saying in your post that things are harder where you are now? Is it the cost of living, or is the job paying less? Any chance of switching jobs? I thought he was going to do real estate, but am not sure exactly what’s the scoop for you all right now.
It is horrid to think that more money would help so much but not be able to do anything to make that “more” appear. I was thinking about it a few weeks ago in regard to my own boys–how do we steer them so that they’ll be able to afford a family on a single income? It’s so much different now than it used to be as far as job security, retirement, etc etc. We definitely have to trust the Lord, but I know He also expects us to work hard and be intelligent . . .it’s a tough balance. We’ll have to really pray for wisdom.
I’m afraid I’m one of those who’s lamenting trying to make it on $60k. And we have *no* credit cards at all, so we have to do everything with cash. Honestly, my budget is for $5000 a month and that’s with no entertainment money, very minimal clothes money (I think there have been perhaps 3 months in the past 13 years I’ve actually given myself money to spend for clothes, LOL–it’s usually a spur-of-the-moment thing where we skip some other bill), and only one car payment. I only spend $600-ish on food and another $100-ish on household (shampoo,cleaning products, diapers, etc). Gas, of course, is a bear. My kids don’t take any lessons or play sports because there’s no extra money for those things. I haven’t bought furniture in 14 years. No curtains except a few sheers from Wal Mart. And our house is only 1650 sq ft with the eight of us. SO . . .we bring in more money, but it doesn’t seem like our situations are much different. I don’t know what the answers are!
I bought the boys a set of videos from Travel the Road. It’s a group of young guys who travel around doing random missions work. On it, there were scenes from Mumbai (India) with women washing their clothes in the disgusting river and then dodging cars in order to lay them out to dry on median strips in the middle of the busy roads they lived on. That’s sortof nipped my “we need to build an addition/put in a pool/get new furniture” in the bud. I guess it’s all relative.
Love ya. And I do believe God will bless your major efforts to be responsible with your money. He loves you so much!
Misty
on 26 Jan 2006 at 11:23 am 8.Katrina said …
Hang in there, Tia. I can’t tell you how much it meant to us to be debt-free when dh was laid off! It was soooo worth it! We still have a long way to go financially. After nine months of unemployment, our resources were depleted. This job is only going to last 8 months (till the end of Feb). I *sooooo* much want to finish our house, but . . .
So, I can identify with the frustration. I keep looking for ways to shave the expenses each month. It’s an ongoing process, and I’m learning to lean on God. I guess that’s a good thing, huh?
Love,
Katrina
on 15 Nov 2006 at 4:01 pm 9.Living Deliberately » WAAAAHHHHHHOOOOOOO!!!!!! said …
[...] So gee golly gee I can’t stop smilin’. The Debtective linked to an old post I made on one of those “down” days. It was cool for me to back and read it because sure enough a year later some things have changed, to God be the Glory: [...]